On 3 September 2015, H.E. Ambassador Liu Xiaoming was invited to a live interview with BBC Newsnight hosted by Robert Peston. Ambassador Liu elaborated on the significance of the Commemoration of the 70th Anniversary of the Victory of the Chinese People's War of Resistance Against Japanese Aggression and the World Anti-Fascist War, and answered questions about China's military expenditure and China's economy. The full text is as follows:
2015年9月3日，駐英國(guó)大使劉曉明在英國(guó)BBC強(qiáng)檔品牌節(jié)目“新聞之夜”（Newsnight）演播室接受該節(jié)目主持人羅伯特·佩斯頓（Robert Peston）直播專訪，談中國(guó)人民抗日戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)暨世界反法西斯戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)勝利70周年紀(jì)念活動(dòng)的重要意義，并回答有關(guān)中國(guó)軍費(fèi)和經(jīng)濟(jì)形勢(shì)等提問(wèn)。專訪實(shí)錄如下：

Peston: Joining me now is the Chinese Ambassador to the UK, Liu Xiaoming. Ambassador, I think of China as this fast modernizing country, enriching country. But we've seen this extraordinary military display today, which takes some of us back to the era of Mao. Is this China again sending a sort of message to the world that, you know, you are fierce and dangerous?
佩斯頓：我們今天邀請(qǐng)到中國(guó)駐英國(guó)大使劉曉明先生。大使先生，當(dāng)我想到中國(guó)時(shí)，我想到一個(gè)國(guó)土遼闊、正邁向現(xiàn)代化、逐漸富裕的國(guó)家。但我們今天看到的令人震撼的閱兵場(chǎng)面，會(huì)使有些人覺(jué)得中國(guó)又回到了“毛澤東時(shí)代”。中國(guó)是否再次向世界發(fā)出這樣一個(gè)信息，即中國(guó)是一個(gè)危險(xiǎn)且令人生畏的國(guó)家？

Ambassador Liu: I think the impression you had is not correct. In fact, the message is loud and clear, that is peace. Peace was hard won and peace should be cherished and maintained. And China will make its due contribution to maintaining world peace and regional stability. You know, in his ten minutes of speech, President Xi Jinping used the word "peace" for 13 times. So, that's the message.
劉大使：我認(rèn)為你得出的印象是錯(cuò)誤的。事實(shí)上，中國(guó)發(fā)出的信息響亮而明確，這就是和平。和平來(lái)之不易，和平應(yīng)當(dāng)珍愛(ài)，和平應(yīng)當(dāng)維護(hù)。中國(guó)將為維護(hù)世界和平和地區(qū)穩(wěn)定做出自己的貢獻(xiàn)。習(xí)近平主席在10多分鐘的講話中，13次提到和平。這就是中國(guó)發(fā)出的信息。

Peston: So these gunboats that sailed off the coast of Alaska when President Obama was there today, was that just a sort of accident?
佩斯頓：今天，美國(guó)總統(tǒng)奧巴馬訪問(wèn)阿拉斯加時(shí)，幾艘中國(guó)軍艦正好出現(xiàn)在靠近阿拉斯加的公海上。這是巧合嗎？

Ambassador Liu: I think we are talking about this commemoration first, then I'll come back to this naval fleet. When I say peace was hard won, not many people, especially in the West realize how much sacrifice China has made for the war against Japanese aggression. In fact the war, the Second World War, started in China, started earliest, lasted longest, and China suffered the largest casualties. We pay the price of 35 million casualties, and that is the most among all the sufferings of the world in Second World War. It's about one third of the casualties of the world. And so Chinese people see this 70th anniversary as a big occasion for us to celebrate the victory, to honor the fallen soldiers who, you know, sacrificed for their motherland.
劉大使：我想，我們還是先談?wù)劷裉斓募o(jì)念大會(huì)，之后我再回到你的問(wèn)題。我說(shuō)和平來(lái)之不易，在西方很少人了解中國(guó)人民為抗日戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)做出了多大犧牲。事實(shí)上，第二次世界大戰(zhàn)發(fā)端于中國(guó)。中國(guó)人民抗日戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)開(kāi)始時(shí)間最早、持續(xù)時(shí)間最長(zhǎng)、傷亡人數(shù)最多。中國(guó)軍民傷亡3500萬(wàn)人，占世界各國(guó)傷亡總?cè)藬?shù)約三分之一，是二戰(zhàn)中傷亡人數(shù)最多的國(guó)家。因此中國(guó)人民把抗日戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)和世界反法西斯戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)勝利70周年視為一個(gè)慶祝勝利、緬懷先烈的重要時(shí)刻

Peston: But this peace require defend spending to go up this extraordinary way, 12% last year, 10% this year? Enormous money you're spending.
佩斯頓：但和平需要中國(guó)軍費(fèi)保持如此之快的速度增長(zhǎng)嗎？去年12%，今年10%。這是一筆巨大的開(kāi)支。

Ambassador Liu: You have to remember that China is a large country. China, you know, in term of territory, it's about 40 times of UK. In terms of population, it's about 20 times. Yet in terms of per capita military expenditure, China is only 1/22 of the United States, and 1/9 of Britain. And also in terms of proportion of expenditure with regard to GDP, the growth is decreasing. This year, in fact, is the lowest of the past 5 years. And you know China is, I said, is a large country to defend, the Chinese military has a lot of commitments.
劉大使：請(qǐng)不要忘記，中國(guó)是一個(gè)大國(guó)。中國(guó)的面積是英國(guó)的40倍，人口是英國(guó)的20倍。而中國(guó)的人均軍費(fèi)僅是美國(guó)的二十二分之一，是英國(guó)的九分之一。而且中國(guó)軍費(fèi)占GDP的比例逐年下降，今年是過(guò)去5年來(lái)最低的。正如你所知，中國(guó)有遼闊的國(guó)土需要保衛(wèi)，此外，中國(guó)軍隊(duì)承擔(dān)著多重任務(wù)。

Peston: I think it's the share of the GDP that's actually gone up a bit, given the rapid growth of the economy. But you talk about obviously your desire of stability. What do you think when you hear the leading Republican Presidential Candidate Donald Trump talking about how he thinks that Chinese want Americans to starve?
佩斯頓：考慮到當(dāng)前中國(guó)經(jīng)濟(jì)的增長(zhǎng)速度，我認(rèn)為中國(guó)軍費(fèi)占GDP的比例事實(shí)上略有上升。你談到中國(guó)要維護(hù)穩(wěn)定，美國(guó)共和黨總統(tǒng)參選人特朗普說(shuō)中國(guó)人想要餓死美國(guó)人，你對(duì)此有何評(píng)論？

Ambassador Liu: I don't think it represents the majority view in United States. You know, you always have some voice, but I don't think….
劉大使：我不認(rèn)為他此番言論代表美國(guó)主流民意。

Peston: But if he became president, how serious would that be?
佩斯頓：但如果特朗普當(dāng)選美國(guó)總統(tǒng)呢？你認(rèn)為這種可能性有多大？

Ambassador Liu: I think it's a very hypothetic question. I do not know how you would answer that. But I certainly will not answer this hypothetic question. But I can assure you that we want to have good relations with United States. And you mention in your film before this interview, that China wants to challenge the dominance of the United States, and even want to challenge the US leadership. That is not our position, not our intention at all. I think in China, we have a lot of challenges to deal with in our domestic development, and we have no intention to challenge US dominance. And we believe that the US and China should be good partners in the Asia-Pacific region.
劉大使：這是一個(gè)假設(shè)性的問(wèn)題，我不知道你會(huì)怎么回答假設(shè)性的問(wèn)題，我是不會(huì)回答假設(shè)性問(wèn)題的。但我可以肯定地告訴你，中國(guó)愿意和美國(guó)建立良好關(guān)系。在訪談開(kāi)始前播出的節(jié)目中，你說(shuō)中國(guó)想挑戰(zhàn)美國(guó)的主導(dǎo)地位，甚至挑戰(zhàn)美國(guó)的世界領(lǐng)導(dǎo)地位。這不是中國(guó)的立場(chǎng)，我們無(wú)意這么做。中國(guó)在實(shí)現(xiàn)自身發(fā)展方面已經(jīng)面臨足夠多的挑戰(zhàn)，我們無(wú)意去挑戰(zhàn)美國(guó)的主導(dǎo)地位。我認(rèn)為中美在亞太地區(qū)應(yīng)該成為好伙伴。

Peston: Now is this display of military strength a distraction from the slowdown in the Chinese economy which many economists think is quite serious?
佩斯頓：中國(guó)舉行閱兵式是為了展示軍力，轉(zhuǎn)移人們對(duì)中國(guó)經(jīng)濟(jì)下滑的注意力嗎？很多經(jīng)濟(jì)學(xué)家認(rèn)為中國(guó)經(jīng)濟(jì)面臨嚴(yán)重問(wèn)題。

Ambassador Liu: I think China's economic difficulties have been exaggerated by Western observers. I think we have some difficulty, challenges, that's for sure. But they are the natural outcome…
劉大使：我認(rèn)為西方觀察家們夸大了中國(guó)經(jīng)濟(jì)面臨的困難。中國(guó)經(jīng)濟(jì)確實(shí)面臨一些困難，這在中國(guó)發(fā)展過(guò)程中是正常的。

Peston: Five trillion dollars lost of the Chinese stock market. Is that trivial?
佩斯頓：中國(guó)股市市值蒸發(fā)了5萬(wàn)億美元，這是小數(shù)目嗎？

Ambassador Liu: No. I think stock market has its own rule of game. You know goes up and downs, like in the United States, in stock market. We have to focus on the big picture of China. I think the basics and fundamentals of the Chinese economy still good and sound. We achieved 7% increase for the first half of this year. That 7% increase is about the same size of the total GDP of this 20th largest economy of Switzerland.

劉大使：我認(rèn)為股市有其自身的運(yùn)行規(guī)律。股市有起有伏，美國(guó)股市也是如此。我們要看中國(guó)經(jīng)濟(jì)的全貌。中國(guó)經(jīng)濟(jì)的基本面是好的。今年上半年中國(guó)GDP增長(zhǎng)了7%，增量相當(dāng)于世界第20大經(jīng)濟(jì)體瑞士的GDP總量。

Peston: And very briefly, your president has said he wants modernized economy and see markets liberalized. A really important part of free markets is that people should be free to say whatever they like about those markets. Now journalists, hedge firm manager have been arrested for allegedly scaremongering about the stock market. To us in the west, that is very shocking.
佩斯頓：習(xí)近平主席表示希望使中國(guó)經(jīng)濟(jì)更加現(xiàn)代化，使市場(chǎng)更加自由化。自由市場(chǎng)的一個(gè)重要組成部分就是，人民應(yīng)該能自由地表達(dá)對(duì)市場(chǎng)的意見(jiàn)。而在中國(guó)，一些記者和基金經(jīng)理因?yàn)樯嫦又圃旃墒锌只疟淮丁＿@對(duì)西方人來(lái)說(shuō)是十分令人震驚的。

Ambassador Liu: I think Chinese people enjoy, you know, freedom of speech. The cases you have mentioned are those who involve in violation of law. You know, China is a country ruled by law. And…
劉大使：中國(guó)人民享有言論自由。在你所說(shuō)的案件中，那些人違反了法律。中國(guó)是法治國(guó)家。

Peston: But I said much scarier thing about British markets than they said about Chinese market. Do you think the British Government should arrest me?
佩斯頓：我說(shuō)過(guò)關(guān)于英國(guó)市場(chǎng)很可怕的話，比那些人說(shuō)中國(guó)市場(chǎng)的話要可怕得多。你覺(jué)得英國(guó)政府應(yīng)該逮捕我嗎？

Ambassador Liu: No. It's not only about the mad comment about the market. It's also about, you know, making…sending the rumors, causing disturbances in the market. And you know, China and Britain are run by different rules of game. And maybe in some of the cases in Britain, it's not a violation of criminal law. But in China, you know, it constitutes a wrong-doings. So they have to be held accountable for their wrong-doings.
劉大使：那些人不僅僅是發(fā)表評(píng)論。他們制造謠言，引起市場(chǎng)恐慌。中英兩國(guó)國(guó)情不同，法律制度也不盡相同。一些行為在英國(guó)可能不違法，而在中國(guó)則不同，如果違法，就要受到懲處。

Peston: Ambassador, many thanks!
佩斯頓：非常感謝，大使先生。

Ambassador Liu: Thank you for having me.
劉大使：謝謝。

Newsnight is a popular BBC 2 current affairs programme which specialises in indepth analysis and robust cross-examination of senior politicians. Robert Peston has been the Economics Editor for BBC since 2013.
“新聞之夜”是英國(guó)BBC電視二臺(tái)知名時(shí)政類訪談節(jié)目，以深度分析和激烈辯論著稱，在英政界和知識(shí)界影響較大，全球受眾廣泛，英國(guó)及世界政要和精英經(jīng)常接受該節(jié)目專訪。主持人佩斯頓2013年任BBC經(jīng)濟(jì)主編至今。

（來(lái)源：外交部網(wǎng)站，編輯：Helen）